Vince Siegle, American Fireworks, just petitioned to annex his property on Enterprise Drive into the Village of Big Bend. The Town of Vernon just lost another property….
As most of you know, I am a land development consultant. I have been working with Vince on his property in Vernon for about three years; this is no secret. I've been assisting him in developing plans to build a fireworks store where he normally has his fireworks tent along I-43 during the summer fireworks season. Since this annexation was a confidential matter between my client and I, I was not able to reveal this until now. I assisted Vince in the preparation of his annexation documents.
It saddens me to see another property in the town go over to the village! Here we go again…
Let’s be clear, I predicted this would happen last year the night the town board voted to change the town ordinance. The town board's policies have stopped a property owner from doing what they want to do. So, we’re going to get the impact anyway, just the property will be in the Village of Big Bend.
Sure, Vince could have built his store in the Town of Vernon, but when the ordinance changed, he couldn’t sell anything but (essentially) sparklers. AN ORDINANCE THAT WAS CHANGED BY THE CURRENT TOWN BOARD! If they would have left the ordinance alone, he would have built in the Town! He needs to be able to sell all LEGAL fireworks in order to pay for a store. One of the reasons I’ve been pushing the town board so hard and trying to hammer the point home on annexation, is because I knew this was going on.
A little history for you: Vince bought this property several years ago when the old ordinance was in effect. Our previous ordinance would have allowed Vince to sell the same fireworks as he sold in his tent in the past several years, but the new ordinance is now more restrictive than all of the surrounding communities. Vince was deep into the process of getting his building ready for construction when the town board changed last April. The change in the ordinance pulled the rug out from under him and his plans to build a store.
VINCE IS ANNEXING TO THE VILLAGE OF BIG BEND BECAUSE OF THE POLICIES OF THE TOWN OF VERNON!
Simple as that.
What a shame.
Friday, March 5, 2010
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The first thing the current town board did was try to prohibit fireworks sales, it failed that first week. So they brought it back to try it again. To add insult to injury the town has charged us for legal fee's to put us out of business. No apologies were made just change the fireworks ordinance. The town board had given more notice and discussion over the razing of the town barn than the removal of the planning commissioner's or changing the fireworks ordinance. Mr. Bird said to me during a phone conversation the day before the final meeting "I haven't had anyone say anything regarding fireworks while I was meeting with people to talk about issues and I would have a problem taking away a man's livelihood" the next day the story changed he voted to ban fireworks sales.
ReplyDeleteMr Michalek said after the 1st meeting "well I guess you can proceed as planned" also "I am a man of integrity" he said. Then wham! Back on the agenda once again. That was the 4th or 5th time in 2 years Mr. Riley engineered a vote against fireworks this time Riley, Bird and Michalek had it all worked out. Seemed to me that it had been discussed in detail behind the scenes. This time discussion was very limited we were given 3 minutes to speak out to protect our livelihood. And out we go, no apology, or respect to what had been promised by the prior town board and planning commission.
Oh, by the way, the change to the fireworks ordinance was a big push by Joe Reilly. It's one of the first things he brought up when Fred Michalek and Bill Craig were seated on the town board.
ReplyDeleteMarch 6,2010
ReplyDeleteMany thanks to the Vernon Town Board for driving your business (former)owner to annex into the Village of Big Bend. Keep them coming!!
A Village Resident
I am a Town of Vernon resident and friends with many residents of the Village of Big Bend and the Town of Vernon. During the last election I became aware of the website” Wake up Vernon”. After reading the various posts it became apparent that whoever was running the site wanted only one side of the issues addressed. As a result, I asked myself several questions: Who benefits from the positions that the Website espoused? Who benefited from the sites personal attacks? Why wouldn’t the operators of the site identify themselves? Why wouldn’t the site allow me to post my questions and concerns?
ReplyDeletePropaganda: is a form of communication aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience.
Recently, I became aware of this site. I was pleased to discover that the operator of this site actually identified himself and attached his photograph. However, I do not agree with many of the posts or positions taken on this site.
I have heard the arguments that the construction near 164 and ES will actually lower our taxes and make everything “just wonderful”, it won’t! It will add additional traffic, additional demands for services and an increase in crime. Our taxes will rise significantly with unbridled growth and our way of life will change. I would hope that our elected officials control growth.
Our insurance costs will probably increase (they always do), but be honest, it is not because of the Fire department splitting.
Breaking up the Fire department (quoting Ronald Reagan on Big Government)” No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!” The governing bodies in Big Bend/Vernon consisting of the Fire Board, Fire Commission, Village Board and Town Board were hamstrung to take action on the Fire departments “issues”. It is time to start over by reducing the number of “Boards” necessary to take appropriate action. I commend the Town Board for taking this somewhat unpopular but necessary action.
Fireworks: Fireworks are illegal to use in Wisconsin, yet businesses are allowed to sell them. What message does this send to our children? Is it OK to break the law as long as you don’t get caught? I believe that Town officials acted correctly in this case. To boast that the Village may have grabbed some more land as a result, is wrong!
Personal attacks: I do not have a problem with the quoting of a public official and posting a response. However, pure speculation such as the post by anonymous “These people want complete control of everything, (sic) The Town Board, Plan Commission, Fire Department, Public Works and Park and Rec.” (This sounds a little crazy/paranoid)or Brian Paff “I was happily surprised by the election results were Rodell Singert had more votes than Joe Reilly.” (A tit for tat personal issue between Mr. Paff and Mr. Riley) degrades your site.
I would not expect “Wake up Vernon” to post this message as it may not be in agreement with the websites views. However, I would hope that this site will encourage constructive dialogue. Please listen to the citizens of your community. Can’t we just get along?
I just love the mindset of people who have lived in this community (maybe for years in the Town of Vernon) that we should be controlling growth! This is not 1953 - and the people who are wanting to get into our community - why shouldn't they be allowed in to maybe build a nicer home or a better life than they may have had in Milwaukee or wherever? Just because we live here - we shouldn't let anyone else in? By the way, the intersection I believe is mostly Big Bend's.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I believe the Fire Commissioners and the Fire Board members receive no salary - they are doing a public service to our two communities which means they volunteer! You have to have a Fire Commission per State Law if you have a Fire Department - so that one stays. But the Fire Board - they will be replaced by the Vernon Town Board running the Fire Department. Hope everyone understands that and understands the work that is involved for any Vernon Town Board member in the future.
If additional services will be needed at the intersection of I-43 and Hwy 164 they will now be given for free to the Village of Big Bend because of mutual aid. Boy that really worked Vernon - now the Village will get mutual aid for free.
So you see, this is more involved than everyone thought.
Can't we just get along and maybe go together as one community with the name being - Big Bend Vernon. What a novel idea! This I'm sure would be agreeable with Ronald Reagan who I believe in - he would support one community instead of two.
Thanks for your comments! This is exactly what I was hoping for; constructive dialogue where we can disagree, but offer ideas and thoughts on how to come together. I, for one, am tired of the angry oration that has become the norm in our town hall. Did you notice the other night that the issues were not addressed? Just another rehash of past history and comments to discredit people like me to justify their actions. If Mr. Craig brings up that $400,000 special equipment vehicle again I think I’ll scream. (Mr. Craig, please remember I presented the budget on behalf of the fire board, I never really liked the idea of a $400,000 special equipment truck….)
ReplyDeleteThe comments above are great and really hit on the key issues that have divided us in the last year: development, fire department, fireworks and personal attacks.
On the development issue, I feel the development at 164/I-43 is inevitable. Big Bend owns all that land, all they have to do is allow the free market to be free and it will develop. I don’t feel we can stop it. IF they are smart about it, they’ll make sure it’s high quality development that adds to the tax base and pays its own way. But let’s not speculate about what Big Bend might or might not do. Let’s look at our own town and our development.
Development can be good for us. Let’s examine the development of Morning Star Golf Course for instance. Year after year that development brings into the town coffers approximately $72,000 in taxes (Yes, that’s JUST the town portion). Does this property use an additional $72,000 in services each year? How many additional plow trucks did we have to purchase in 2000 when the first house went in there? How many people did we add to the DPW, to the fire service, to the town hall staff? I argue that we added very little cost for this development. That $72,000 pays nearly 20% of the town’s portion of the fire department operations budget. I live fairly close to Morning Star; I haven’t noticed a huge impact in traffic from those 40 lots. How is Morning Star bad for our community? I think it’s a good example of high quality development adding to the value of our community. I don’t see the RIGHT type of development as bad. Plus I don’t want to close the doors to our community. I want my kids to be able to find a place to live here. (I’ve sometimes quipped, tongue in cheek of course, that those that don’t believe in development in our community should not believe in procreation either!) :)
On the fireworks issue, I like fireworks. (Those that live around me know this. lol!) I don’t believe they are illegal to launch with a license and an ordinance in the community that allows it. My lawyer explained it to me that it’s much like guns, you can buy them, store them, etc., but not go around your property shooting them where it’s not allowed. Go to the proper range or get a property where shooting is allowed. That’s about the extent of my knowledge. Vince? Are you out there? Care to explain?
Personal attacks: the comments I published were not over the line as far as I’m concerned. Pretty mild compared to what I’ve seen online on some other sites and in the town hall. But, I have to admit I prefer more intelligible debate…
Finally, on the fire department, it’s going to cost us money with no hope of reducing our long term costs. Where’s the justification other than it solves problems that we just don’t care to deal with?
Mr. Doble,
ReplyDeleteThank you for listing my post (I am listed as anonymous in the forth position above). Your response was insightful and informative as were you communications during the last Town Board meeting. Unlike the “anonymous” listed in the fifth position above, you have listed facts to support your views and have stayed away from speculation.
You stated “On the development issue, I feel the development at 164/I-43 is inevitable.” I agree (I also recognize that it is not 1953, so thank you for being an adult). However, the Town appears to be the only community exercising control. The businesses which have left the Town left the Town because the Village is more lax than the Town in their ordinances/codes(and they stated as much). Where does the village draw the line? Will they allow adult book stores and “Head shops” to be developed at 164/I-43 in order to acquire more land? It would be convenient with the easy ingress and egress to the expressway.
You stated “Big Bend owns all that land”. That is a point I have heard repeatedly. Big Bend can do what it wants with the land without consideration of her neighbors? It seems hypocritical to expect a Town Board to bend with respect to the Fire Department when Big Bend will do what it wants (anonymous #5 “By the way, the intersection I believe is mostly Big Bend's.”) . Our country is presently in the midst of the greatest economic downturn since the Great Depression. It is time for reasonableness to prevail and communities to appropriately plan new and expensive constructions with consideration of their neighbors (Sewers, wells etc.).
Fireworks: I like fireworks too, so we are in agreement on a second point. However, you state “I don’t believe they are illegal to launch with a license and an ordinance in the community that allows it. “. Firework ordinances typically allow trained individuals to deploy fireworks but not just any individual (4th of July). I’m sure “Vince” will tell you that Big Bend and Vernon are not communities that allow everyone and anyone to “launch” fireworks. I also believe that there are no such communities in Waukesha County.
Personal attacks: I agree that your comments, at least the ones I’m aware of, were not over the line.
Fire department: You stated “it’s going to cost us money with no hope of reducing our long term costs.” When you say “us” you must mean Big Bend. Vernon will cut her future costs by eliminating the need for the $500,000+ ladder trucks needed to service the construction proposed by Big Bend. Vernon will also be able to effectively deal with internal Fire Department issues more effectively and efficiently. For example, the issue involving the Fire Captain would be a non-issue because effective Rules and Regulations will be established with an effective chain of command (Pardon me I am an optimist). I hesitate to list the actual cost of that fiasco because the numbers appear to change depending upon who you talk to. $50,000 seems to be the Median figure.
Morning Star Golf Course: Here the Town Board members apparently made the right decision with regard to their ordinances. Whatever Town Board handled that issue should be commended (Past or present). However, please don’t expect me to believe that “all” business development will reduce my taxes. A quick look at the surrounding cities demonstrates that development increases taxes.
In conclusion I would like to thank you for keeping this Forum above board (no pun intended).
A note on a post above. The Village of Big Bend did not GRAB the land away from Vernon. A land owner petitioned to Big Bend for Annexation. If The Vernon Town Board keeps up this anti business attitude, more and more land owners will petition for annexation, Vernon will wither away, losing its tax base and your taxes will go up.
ReplyDeleteSince the above poster likes to quote President Ronald Regan, Here is one that the politicians in Vernon should live by....
ReplyDelete"In the present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem."
This from his Presidential Inaugural Address on January 20, 1981. It is one of the best...
It appears to me that Big Bend is looking at the free market to help with growth. It is this free market that will bring jobs to the area. It is this free market that help the local economy. It is this free market that we as citizens of the United States look for to make ourselves better. In this time our economy is in, I look forward to what Big Bend is doing, because many people could end up with a job in my community.
This is progress and if Big Bend is willing to work with businesses and keep in mind the people of the community, they have my support.
The role of Government is to "serve" the people, not "serve" their own interests.
As a resident of the community, there was a time that Vernon was looking at getting sewer and water to the I-43/164 interchange. This was back in the late 1990's. The Town looked at setting up it's own system well before Big Bend did. The Town spent thousands of dollars researching this. Once the Land Owners annexed to Big Bend, the Village then started the process. This is a fact, look it up in the minutes of the Town and Village. And all the public hearings the Town had on their proposed sewer system.
As for this adult bookstores and "head shops" back in 1980's, the Village passed a law prohibiting such establishments. That is also public record....
As for the Fire Department, in these times where almost 10% of the population is unemployed, government should be looking at ways to consolidate serves. The cost of equipment such as ambulances and fire trucks are anywhere from $200,000 to $800,000. The more communities that are on board, the cheaper the cost. The Vernon Town Board Members should think of that when they start their own fire department. They will now have to bear the costs of everything. No more 17,18,19 or 20 percent from the Village.
Big Bend appears bound and determined to do a joint department if they can and that is smart. The Village President appears to see the cost effectiveness in combining services and I applaud him for such foresight....
As for the Village President in Big Bend, will someone please tell me what this man has done to deserve such hatred from the Town Board.. I watched the meeting from 3/4/10 and these Town Board Members are just blasting him for every little thing the Village of Big Bend is doing. Doesn't the Vernon Town Board have better things to do??? Leave the guy alone, all he is doing, based on the articles and the posting here, is his job. I don't see him blasting the Vernon Town Board and bringing things up from over 10 years ago... These guys sound like the Democrats in Congress. Anything the Village President does, they have to comment over and over....
What the Vernon Town Board needs to do is knock off the complaining and changing people over and over with their committees. They need to look toward not only Big Bend, but Mukwonago as well. These are two communities with vision for the future... The Town Board needs to see this and get on board before they isolate themselves from everyone.
Remember we are a Republic. We have a Government of the People, by the People...
If I don't like what my elected officials are doing, it is my right to speak my opinion and vote them out of office. Government, no matter what size, needs to remember that the people are the bosses, not the elected officials. Some how many forget this. The Vernon Town Board does not own the Fire Department or anything else the Town has to offer. The People do... And it doesn't matter if they are residents or businesses. They all pay taxes...
Thank you and I look forward to your future posts....
Sincerely,
A citizen of this "Great Republic"
Regarding; Consumer Fireworks, Novelty Fireworks and Display Fireworks.
ReplyDeleteDisplay Fireworks; 1.3g professional grade fireworks which require a federal license to sell and or purchase, no question that these items are not for use by the public.
Fireworks Novelties; 1.4g State legal to purchase and use on private properties without a license or permit provisions of minimum age or time of day upon which they could be used.
Consumer Fireworks; 1.4g State legal to purchase and use with a permit from the municipality in which they will be used, no license for user, age provision or time of which they could be used.
Vince (that's me) and my wife Heather Siegel had been selling both consumer and novelty 1.4g fireworks in Vernon for 2 years with no incidents.
Consumer fireworks permits are / were available to the public from the town during this period, you need not be a professional to purchase or use them. Just apply to the town.
State Statute 167.10 (3).
Consumer Fireworks can be sold to out of state residents without permit or license.
State Statute 167.4
(make sure that you read a current version)
Consumer fireworks permits are readily available to the public in Vernon, Big Bend, Mukwonago, Muskego and the list goes on and on.
Vernon has the right to create an ordinance restricting fireworks sales but did they have a need to restrict them? Were there unsafe or illegal activities taking place.
As a business owner I operate strictly within the law. If you read the statute you will understand this is the truth.
I have customers that abide by the law and some may not and that's unfortunate.
That's why we have the Sheriff's Dept. We had not had any complaints from the Sheriff in the town or the Police in the Village where we also sell in accordance with their laws.
People lets keep one thing in mind it's fireworks!
Our sales peak for a week before our Nation's Independence Day which is July 4th for a couple of you that need to be reminded.
Don't like them then don't buy them if the neighbor is disrupting your peace on July 4th be a good neighbor and turn the other cheek. If they endanger your safety call the law enforcement in you community.
Again come on what is more American than Celebrating Your Independence?
It was ashame what happened to us we received conceptual approval from the town and county before purchasing that property.
Before allowing sales we were required to elevate the land 3'. We trucked in 160,000 lbs of gravel, install a 42' culvert. We had to have it surveyed and resurveyed. Needed to prepare and condut errosion control lanscaping.
We paid thousands to the town in fee's. Followed every letter of our conditional use.
No apologies we don't want fireworks. Now people can still go to; Tichigan, East Trot, Rochester, Allenton, Wayne, Lomira, Eagle, Beloit, Raymond, Caledonia, Mukwonago...The list goes on believe me.
Bottom Line;
The town broke a promise they made us after we spent close to 200,000 for the property and preparations to build a store. Has not offered a refund on fee's paid for a planning meeting that Fred Machalek cancelled to prevent our approval.
I believe part of the reason the planning commission was dismantled and then stacked was I would have gotten a 5-2 vote on our building.
They say I could still build it and sell sparklers, insulting I say.
We are not rich people! We put every dime we had in this project.
Please do not compare us to adult book store's, they have more right's.
Mike Doble suggested that we try to talk to Vernon once more before annexing.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the point?
Riley tried to shut our business down the prior year on June 6th 2008 and then again on June 19 '08 While we were open and during busiest time of year.
We dealt with this from June '08 continuously until October '08
He almost gave my wife Heather a nervous breakdown.
In October we were told that we could bring building plans move forward with our dream. Due to the economy we had financing issue's but paid for building plans and brought them back to the town.
There was a new planner he needed to get up to speed and it took a few weeks to get a date. Paff decided not to run for office and the rest has been said.
The Chairman has no control over Riley's rants.
The Chairman boast's of his integrity but has yet to display any.
Laws have been broken.
Back room deals have been made.
Neighbor's have been offended.
Folk's you seriously need to get the "verMon" out of the Town of Vernon. This community has a lot of great people and should have better representation by ladies and gentlemen that care about your quality of life, reputation and neighbor's.
My comments are directed to Riley, Bird and Michalek.
I'm posting this since it didn't work for Vince: Vince Siegel has left a new comment on your post "We Just Lost Another One.....":
ReplyDeleteRegarding; Consumer Fireworks, Novelty Fireworks and Display Fireworks.
Display Fireworks; 1.3g professional grade fireworks which require a federal license to sell and or purchase, no question that these items are not for use by the public.
Fireworks Novelties; 1.4g State legal to purchase and use on private properties without a license or permit provisions of minimum age or time of day upon which they could be used.
Consumer Fireworks; 1.4g State legal to purchase and use with a permit from the municipality in which they will be used, no license for user, age provision or time of which they could be used.
Vince (that's me) and my wife Heather Siegel had been selling both consumer and novelty 1.4g fireworks in Vernon for 2 years with no incidents.
Consumer fireworks permits are / were available to the public from the town during this period, you need not be a professional to purchase or use them. Just apply to the town.
State Statute 167.10 (3).
Consumer Fireworks can be sold to out of state residents without permit or license.
State Statute 167.4
(make sure that you read a current version)
Consumer fireworks permits are readily available to the public in Vernon, Big Bend, Mukwonago, Muskego and the list goes on and on.
Vernon has the right to create an ordinance restricting fireworks sales but did they have a need to restrict them? Were there unsafe or illegal activities taking place.
As a business owner I operate strictly within the law. If you read the statute you will understand this is the truth.
I have customers that abide by the law and some may not and that's unfortunate.
That's why we have the Sheriff's Dept. We had not had any complaints from the Sheriff in the town or the Police in the Village where we also sell in accordance with their laws.
People lets keep one thing in mind it's fireworks!
Our sales peak for a week before our Nation's Independence Day which is July 4th for a couple of you that need to be reminded.
Don't like them then don't buy them if the neighbor is disrupting your peace on July 4th be a good neighbor and turn the other cheek. If they endanger your safety call the law enforcement in you community.
Again come on what is more American than Celebrating Your Independence?
It was ashame what happened to us we received conceptual approval from the town and county before purchasing that property.
Before allowing sales we were required to elevate the land 3'. We trucked in 160,000 lbs of gravel, install a 42' culvert. We had to have it surveyed and resurveyed. Needed to prepare and condut errosion control lanscaping.
We paid thousands to the town in fee's. Followed every letter of our conditional use.
No apologies we don't want fireworks. Now people can still go to; Tichigan, East Trot, Rochester, Allenton, Wayne, Lomira, Eagle, Beloit, Raymond, Caledonia, Mukwonago...The list goes on believe me.
Bottom Line;
The town broke a promise they made us after we spent close to 200,000 for the property and preparations to build a store. Has not offered a refund on fee's paid for a planning meeting that Fred Machalek cancelled to prevent our approval.
I believe part of the reason the planning commission was dismantled and then stacked was I would have gotten a 5-2 vote on our building.
They say I could still build it and sell sparklers, insulting I say.
We are not rich people! We put every dime we had in this project.
Please do not compare us to adult book store's, they have more right's.
Citizen of a Great Republic,
ReplyDelete“"In the present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem."Ronald Reagan.
Thank you Great Republic, for locating this Reagan quote, I understand that you are applying the quote to the present Town of Vernon Board. If I had located the quote earlier I would have applied it to the current condition involving the Fire Department, Fire Board, Fire Commission, Village Board and Town Board. However you got there first to my chagrin.
Great Republic stated “As a resident of the community, there was a time that Vernon was looking at getting sewer and water to the I-43/164 interchange. This was back in the late 1990's. The Town looked at setting up it's own system well before Big Bend did.” This is an excellent response! However, remember that I am just one citizen. An exact date and time when this occurred, or better yet an exact quote would make this an easier project for the average voter.
Great Republic stated “As for this adult bookstores and "head shops" back in 1980's, the Village passed a law prohibiting such establishments. That is also public record....” Another excellent, informative and reassuring response however, please list the ordinance etc. where the “law” appears. Once again I am just one citizen of this Great Republic.
Fire Department: Your argument is weak and unconvincing. I understand that the Town Board is already in the process of arranging for mutual aid etc..
Village President in Big Bend: I don’t know this man personally but I’ve only heard good things about him. I suspect that he is the current lightning rod taking the heat.
Vince Siegel said...quoted specific statutes that seem to say a Town or Village citizen can purchase Fireworks and use them on their own property. As I recall a citizen can purchase a permit and fireworks, however the “private property” upon which they can legally use the fireworks is located on the western portion of our state (about 125 miles away). If my memory is correct then Mr. Siegel is being disingenuous and opening our residents (both Vernon and Big Bend) up to a fine or worse. Please correct me if I’m wrong. However, remember I like fireworks and the 4th of July…
Annexation: Remember that your “annexation sword” cuts both ways! I realize that my subdivision will probably be annexed in the future. We are Town residents and that is what happens to Towns. When that happens (I hope the distant future) I would rather be annexed to Big Bend than any other surrounding community. However, I am not looking forward to the additional taxes (my guess at least $500 but probably more than $1,000 dollars a year). When/if the annexation occurs I will cast my vote to vote to cast those “rascals” (Those elected officials who raised taxes) out.
Wake up Vernon: I’ve noticed that the site went dormant immediately after the last election. Who was elected in the last Town of Vernon election? Whose opponent was the one that was attacked? I suspect that “Wake up Vernon” will be “revved up” in the near future in response to this forum.
Good job Mike Doble! Yes I disagree with you in several areas but I appreciate your honesty and integrity. I am just one citizen and I choose to be informed.
“Ronald Reagan quoter”.
One more comment on the big box building alluded to above. From fire personnel that I have spoken to at the Fire Station in the Town of Vernon (an Officer) he stated to me that we already have a big box building - the Painter's Union which I believe used to be called Waynz World right on I-43 and that if there was a fire at the Painter's Union, the Town of Waukesha would respond with their brand new ladder truck for mutual aid also known as a MABAS call. The Big Bend Vernon Fire Department would not have to purchase a ladder truck.
ReplyDeleteMutual aid from the Town of Vernon Fire Department (hopefully that does not happen) in 2011 will also have to respond to the Village of Big Bend for any type of fire - that benefit will be "free" from the Town of Vernon taxpayers! That's how mutual aid works - just as the Town of Waukesha responding to the Town of Vernon calls would be free.
Please remember that in MOST cases the property owner is required to request annexation from the neighboring community. So when you say your subdivision will probably be annexed in the future, this will only happen if you or a majority of the residents in your area ask to be annexed.
ReplyDeleteThis is not true in all cases. In the Deluca/Ball annexation, there were some unfortunate homeowners that were dragged into the village against their will. Deluca and Ball had an overwhelming majority of the land and these people did not get a choice. They are now village residents.
Intelligent, logical, factual, compelling arguments, no character assassinations, straw man arguments, or speculation, that’s refreshing.
ReplyDeleteI’m not through asking questions nor have I been swayed on all of the issues. A few of my questions have not been addressed and I await a response. I would also appreciate it if Town residents or Supervisors asked/answered a few questions.
“Ronald Reagan quoter”
Another from Vince:
ReplyDeleteTo "Ronald Reagan Quote" Please read over my previous comments again because you seem a little confused over what I said. We, American Fireworks, have never sold permits from other municipalities that are 125 miles away. We have sold them in the Village of Slinger for our sales in Slinger and those we only sold in Slinger.
My comments were towards the legality of the use and availability of permits to adults in our local communities.
Call Muskego or Big Bend and see if they offer a permit for use, the answer is yes, you may need to be a resident to get one.
But if you’re from Vernon they had one in the past and it required application 30 days prior to use. It may still exist, I will get back to you on that.
Please do some research, and please do not misquote me. I would not mislead you. Everything I say is in the statutes or can be verified with local officials.
Permits are available, if you have out of state ID you do not need one. Wholesale sales do not require a permit.
If you need help getting one please let us know, it is what we do.
To Ronald Reagan Quoter,
ReplyDeleteHere are some parts of the newspaper articles that I was able to find from the, at that time, Milwaukee Journal...
-----------------------------------------------
"Costs daunt Vernon sewer plan"
Author: RICK MOON
Publication: The Milwaukee Journal
Publish Date: September 16, 1994
Special to The Journal
Vernon Extending sanitary sewers to 630 acres near the Interstate 43/Highway 164 interchange could cost the property owners $2.9 million, or $4,600 per acre, according to engineering consultants hired by the town.
Judging by residents'reactions at an informational meeting Thursday night, it's not a popular idea.
The mere suggestion of forming a sanitary district at the interchange had homeowners fuming at the meeting attended
-------------------------------------
"Property owner to be asked about extending sewers City of Waukesha main would be extended to Vernon interchange"
Author: CAROL WAHLEN
Publication: The Milwaukee Journal
Publish Date: September 15, 1994
Property owners will have a chance tonight to say whether they are willing to pay the cost of installing sanitary sewers in a 600-acre area at the interchange of Interstate 43 and state Highway 164 in Vernon.
A meeting on the issue will begin at 7 p.m. at Big Bend Elementary School, W230-S8695 Big Bend Drive. It was called by Crispell-Snyder Inc., an Elkhorn consulting engineering firm hired by Vernon officials to study the feasibility of installing sewers at the interchange.
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"Town of Vernon committee to take up development issue again"
Author: CAROL WAHLEN
Publication: The Milwaukee Journal
Publish Date: May 12, 1994
The Journal staff
Town of Vernon After five months of work to create a master plan for land use here, the issue of what kind of development should be permitted around the Highway 164 interchange at I-43 remains unresolved.
The Town Planner Committee will have another go at it at 7 tonight, when it meets at Big Bend Elementary School, W230- S8695 Big Bend Drive, Big Bend. The meeting was going to be held at the Town Hall but was moved in case a crowd shows up.
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"Residents show concern at meeting"
Publication: The Milwaukee Journal
Publish Date: April 22, 1994
Town of Vernon
More than 100 residents attended a monthly town planning meeting Thursday because of concern about the master plan that is being developed for Vernon.
What prompted the unusually large turnout was concern over 350 acres in the town's Highway 43 and 164 corridor, where rezoning for commercial or light industrial use is proposed, said Town Supervisor Karen L. Schuh.
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See the Town of Vernon was the original starter of the Sewer/Water idea along with the development around I-43 and 164, not the Village of Big Bend. It wasn't until a majority of property owners around I-43 and 164 requested annexation to Big Bend, then Big Bend picked up the plans and ran with them.
As for the Adult Bookstores, I am still looking and I will do my best to find it..
Thanks for the questions... I am enjoying the debate..
"Great Republic"
To Ronald Reagan Quoter,
ReplyDeleteI have to apoligize to you. I guess my memory isn't as good as I thought. Looking at the Village of Big Bend web site, they do allow those types of establishments. They updated the law in 1991 it looks like. Sometime though in the early 80's they were band. So I stand corrected. I just hope they wouldn't put anything up there like that..
"Great Republic"
Town of Vernon sells a Fireworks Permit!
ReplyDeleteTown of Vernon fireworks ordinance #2009-06 Section 160-24
Revised in May of 2009 will still allow a town resident 18 years of age or older to obtain a fireworks permit.
You must apply to the Town Chairman he will refer it to the Fire Chief for consideration and if approved the town will require insurance of 1,000,000.00 (which is new to the town).
This insurance will cost about $350.00.
It goes on to state that the town chairman can impose addition special conditions. In other municipalities it would be the Fire Chief that would impose additional conditions.
These revisions had been drafted by Riley he took what should be decisions made by the fire chief and gave the town chairman who may or may not be qualified to answer questions regarding fire control.
I suggest that fireworks enthusiasts apply early for their permits because it may take you some time with the current makeup of the town board.
Vince: I apologize and stand corrected; I was completely unaware of the new law/ordinance. Thank you for updating everyone with regard to this change. Suffice it to say that I am for the right to choose as long as it doesn’t impinge upon the rights of others (the unborn).
ReplyDeleteSince the Village of Big Bend allows for “head shops” and “Adult type Bookstores” I am alarmed… However, before rushing to judgment, I wonder if the Town has an ordinance banning the aforementioned. As it stands, since the Town is more restrictive in general, I still have to side with the Town.
Keep the “Facts” coming…
Ronald Reagan quoter
It should be apparent that I support several of the current Town Boards decisions. However, there is one area in which I have a specific concern.
ReplyDeleteEarlier this year several members of the Town Board made a request for “Independent Thinkers” to fill vacated spots on several Boards. One of those positions was filled by a Mr. Scherbarth (sp). After a few months went by Mr. Scherbarth either left the position or was removed (I don’t know which). Later, a member of the Town Board (I believe it was Mr. Craig) was upset because the Village Board was considering putting Mr. Scherbarth back on the Board. I don’t understand why this was even an issue (please enlighten me, The Town Board apparently felt that he was an independent thinker). The obvious innuendo was that the Village Board was trying to pull something.
During the last Town Board meeting Mr. Scherbarth came to speak during the public comments portion of the Town’s meeting. I understand that there is a caveat given to all persons intending to make such comments, that they cannot specifically address a Board member. Afterwards, a member of the Town Board (I believe it was Mr. Bird) began to question Mr. Scherbarth in a very accusatory manner. The gist of the Board members, comment suggested was that Mr. Scherbarth over spent while serving on the Board. Later on in the meeting, I learned that Mr. Scherbarth was only on the Board for a few months and merely consented to a few necessary expenditures.
As the meeting progressed other citizens were accusatorially questioned after making comments. The Chairman Mr. Mahalic (sp), called the individual Board members “out of order”. Yet the board members were allowed to continue with what I can only call tirades (for lack of a better word).
Here are my questions:
Can a Board Chairman (Town or Village) impose sanctions on a Board member if he/she is repeatedly called out of order? If so, what are the sanctions?
Do “Independent thinkers” have to think the same way you do (sorry this is rhetorical)?
Can a Town or Village Board (Internet Forum) expect to get any valid public comments if the person who comments is subjected to public ridicule?
Ronald Reagan quoter
Ronald Reagan Quoter, here is my opinion:
ReplyDeleteChairman Michalek may “censure” the violator. In essence censure means that they are no longer permitted to speak at that meeting. If they continue to speak while censured, then the chair has the right to ask that person to leave the meeting. The voters ultimately apply sanctions by either recalling that person or electing another to fill their place. Others with more knowledge, please correct me if I’m wrong or add to this. My knowledge of these matters is only be experience, not formal training.
Those that don’t agree with the town board are being removed from the boards. Dan Sherbarth was removed. The same implication of mis-spending funds has been used against me. It’s wrong. They know it’s wrong, yet it is their only defense.
You do not know how many private emails I get from folks that agree with me, but are concerned about coming forward. Here is a sample from one of those emails:
“My wife had some reservations [Ed. – About getting involved.] because she's worried about retaliation in the form of reassessment etc, etc.. but I told her not to worry.”
At a meeting last week I had a business owner come up to me and say, “Keep up the good work, I’d come forward and speak as well, but my conditional use permit is up soon and I don’t want to be denied.”
In total I’ve had five people contact me to offer encouragement, but they themselves refuse to get involved because they feel there would be retaliation.
Those of us that are making comment and fighting this fight are already in their crosshairs and we’ve already been attacked with half truths and innuendos. We have nothing to lose at this point.
You’re absolutely right though, how can you expect valid comments in an environment like this. That is why I allowed “anonymous” comments on my blog. I hate anonymous comments because they can come from anywhere, but if I didn’t, there would be very little discussion.
One more thing: the comments made under announcements last week were a violation of the open meetings law, yet it continues to happen meeting after meeting.
ReplyDeleteWhere is the Waukesha County DA in all of this? Shouldn't there be cops at these Town meetings if this is going on? I can only hope someone in the DA's office gets a hold of some of the above comments and starts doing a little investigation.
ReplyDeleteMr. Doble,
ReplyDeletePlease explain your “One more thing” comment. I am vaguely familiar with the open meetings law but unfamiliar with its specific nuances. How could “comments” made during a public and video-graphed meeting be a violation of this law?
Ronald Reagan quoter
The open meetings law has a very broad interpretation, but most of the enforcement side of the law is based on case history and decisions of the court. Please understand that I am not a lawyer, but I don’t shoot off at the mouth (typically) when I know nothing about a subject. I had a meeting with legal counsel on Friday 3/5 at 10am and I specifically showed him this agenda item from the 3/4 agenda:
ReplyDelete9. ANNOUNCEMENTS. The following individuals will be given the opportunity to make announcements at the meeting in regards to activities they have undertaken since the last meeting on behalf of the Town, future activities and citizen contacts. It is not contemplated that these matters will be discussed or acted on but referrals to the appropriate committees and/or individuals will be made.
a. Town Board, Town Clerk, Town Treasurer, Department of Public Works Director and Building Inspector.
I then described to him what had happened at the meeting with the speeches given by Reilly, Craig and Bird during this agenda item. He offered to render a written opinion, but he said that based on what I described it was clearly a violation of the law.
He explained that the open meetings law protects the citizens from meetings that may happen without their knowledge (you know, private back room deals). But it also protects the citizens by not allowing discussion of items that are not on the agenda. They way overstepped their bounds last Thursday. The law tolerates open interpretation, but not gross violations.
In order to make an issue out of it, I would have to refer it to DA Brad Schimel. I might, but haven’t decided yet. I did order a copy of the meeting tape from the Clerk. In the past he has not taken action on my complaints. (I filed formal charges against the Town Board in January, nothing has happened as of yet…)
So you see, we are out here on our own. I’m trying very hard to not be petty and stoop to their level, but it’s hard when so much of this is happening. I’m taking the approach that the more people I can educate the better. This is a VERY complex issue. Honestly, in these discussions we’ve only scratched the surface. There are so many facets of the issues at hand that the only way to truly educate someone is to sit down face to face and discuss it all. That is what we’re trying to do with VRSG. We’re hoping to have another meeting before the election so more of the citizens questions can be answered. There is a lot more discussion to follow in the coming weeks.
As always, every citizen will be invited, including the town board.
Dear Ronald Reagan Quoter,
ReplyDeleteYes the Town of Vernon does allow for Adult Bookstores and Head Shops. It is in their Town Ordinances and it reads just like the Village of Big Bend's. I hope the Sewer articles helped...
Also I want to mention that the Big Bend/Vernon Fire Department has access through Mutual Aid for ladder trucks from Mukwonago, Tess Corners and New Berlin. I have seen them on fire scenes this past year....
Great Republic...